LF: OBSESSED BY PURRINIA [ GoGo Loco V1.8.6 | FaceTracking - UE | Pc Only | Physbones | Colliders | Avatar 3.0 ]
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@Sythra Because they have to make a living? You don't know what their monthly sales numbers are like or their living expenses.
@zeikrius what kind of argument is that? Me as "your" customer have zero responsibility for your living situation. I pay for for the product and thats all I care about.
How come that VRC avatars are just about the same price, as full fletched AAA game? And even those are to be perceived to be expensive for what they offer. How come that indie titles made by small to one-man studios, of which the creator/s have surely put much more hours to, are at least 1/2 of the price?
I mean sure, you can name the price for your producs as high as you want .. but then, dont be surpriced, when people perceive the price as high, and therefore, the product not worth it.
IMHO, most avis that are being made are not worth more than 20 bucks.
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i actually agree that they are not worth more than 20 (except for sushi's avatars ily sushi). there is a very significant amount of customer dissatisfaction in the community, IMO. regardless of the several issues, i dont expect change. i believe that the reason for the lack of quality and options for vrc avatars is because there isnt enough people making them. there is very little competition and it's a really specialized skillset
i still cant believe that deira avatars still exist. them alone are what make me think this bitterly of the situation. 60$ for the base avatar with no clothing or toggles. edits are also 60$, and are made in unity- completely unoptimized (IMO) with 500k polys
its been a long time- maybe even a year or more since the deira came out, and nothing has emulated the deira whatsoever. people buy multiples of these deira edits-. i just cant believe it. that people eat it up. in general, people dont know any better. they are tricked into wearing avatars that they can barely runand its not even whether vrchat avatars look bad.- we're not even at that point yet for the choices that we have. its about a physical lack of skill- or care. even this avatar that we're on has rings with the text backwards. the 'outfits' are just 3 almost identical bodysuits. this isnt opinion, this is fact.
unity-based avatar making DOES require skill. and it requires a lot of time, too. but as someone that does edit in unity- it is absolutely not worth your money, especially when renders are used for pictures (extra good-looking photos that dont show off the avatar properly).. and theres no refunds, or testing, allowed.
depends on the seller obv, i more mean more-rushed avatars. i appreciate that there is people defending these artworks and their price- ofc we want more of them made. i think that vrchat avatars is the one, very small part of the art market that doesn't require defending.
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@zeikrius said in LF: OBSESSED BY PURRINIA [ GoGo Loco V1.8.6 | FaceTracking - UE | Pc Only | Physbones | Colliders | Avatar 3.0 ]:
@Sythra Because they have to make a living? You don't know what their monthly sales numbers are like or their living expenses.
But most of creators of avatars are scamming the buyers, even populars ones like godfall, they're selling avatars with tons of bugs, and need a lot of fixing, and most of the times even in fresh updated version of their avis the avatars still have some problems.
Even tho, it might happens, when there's as much as today, it's not fair the price at all, it's like when you buy a game, you pay for a game that is fully functionnal and smooth to use on steam, if its not then it's not worth the price, same goes with avi.
And not even to mention that a lot of creators steal assets and re-use some for free too without even crediting authors.So to me, most of the creators doesn't deserve the price of what they're putting.
Just my take tho.@lovelyctuei474 @rea007 I'm not disagreeing with either of you, the provider of a good or service have the responsibility to provide quality that match the prices being charged, but the point being raised by rea specifically is flawed. These are not goods or services you are requiring to live, they can literally charge whatever the market will bear and it won't affect you since you are not their customer until you have actually purchased anything from them and as such bear you not such responsibility. As things being overpriced; if the market won't bear it, they either don't purchase it or they get it through alternative means.
They could change the price down to $20 and it wouldn't affect me I would still have to use alternative means, but your argument is worthless the way you are saying it, like comparing big publishers so self-published indie devs? The required profits for indie devs tends to be signicantly lower because they have fewer people to pay and aren't typically beholden to stock owners. The type of site we are on really shatters any of our arguments on this if you look into it.
@kitties9999 You're points I actually agree with for the most point, the price point of a lot of old outdated models and their bases shouldn't be so high, especially when it would have increased their sales after so long. It's just poor marketing on their part honestly. As for the way they misrepresent their product in pictures and previews, hiding the poor quality, is incredibly infuriating. But yet again what can I say? I'm not often a paying customer, but I feel horrible for those that are. I put more work in my models than most of the model creators I see do when it comes to the unity side but am unable use Blender.
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Looks like the person who replied to me dirty deleted their post or something but here's my two cents on this...
Personally I believe many creators are severely overpricing their work and delivering a subpar product. As others have stated, many of these creators misrepresent their products on their shop pages/websites with beautiful renders, showcases, etc only for the model to look like shit when its fully uploaded into VRC. They're essentially scamming people by proxy but no creator wants to have that conversation. This is on top of the fact that creators are starting to charge a minimum of $40+ and barely offer anything to show for it with very few toggles or customization options. I've bought quite a few avatars lately that don't even come with GoGo Loco which is inexcusable as it is one of the simplest drag and drop options to add in Unity.
And there's also the fact that creators aren't quality testing their work before release either. I recently purchased an avatar that was $50 and it came with broken toggles and other issues the creator should have 100% been on top of and fixed before release... but many creators would rather shit out one avatar after another to line their pockets instead of taking their time to make higher quality avatars that people would enjoy using.
Aside from quality and price issues another huge reason that people don't want to purchase avatars directly is because many creators turn out to be extremely problematic people in general. Many creators are predatory, scammers, etc and people may still admire their work but don't want to support them by directly lining their pockets.
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Looks like the person who replied to me dirty deleted their post or something but here's my two cents on this...
Personally I believe many creators are severely overpricing their work and delivering a subpar product. As others have stated, many of these creators misrepresent their products on their shop pages/websites with beautiful renders, showcases, etc only for the model to look like shit when its fully uploaded into VRC. They're essentially scamming people by proxy but no creator wants to have that conversation. This is on top of the fact that creators are starting to charge a minimum of $40+ and barely offer anything to show for it with very few toggles or customization options. I've bought quite a few avatars lately that don't even come with GoGo Loco which is inexcusable as it is one of the simplest drag and drop options to add in Unity.
And there's also the fact that creators aren't quality testing their work before release either. I recently purchased an avatar that was $50 and it came with broken toggles and other issues the creator should have 100% been on top of and fixed before release... but many creators would rather shit out one avatar after another to line their pockets instead of taking their time to make higher quality avatars that people would enjoy using.
Aside from quality and price issues another huge reason that people don't want to purchase avatars directly is because many creators turn out to be extremely problematic people in general. Many creators are predatory, scammers, etc and people may still admire their work but don't want to support them by directly lining their pockets.
@Sythra All I did really was shorten my statement to be more concise, I'm terrible at doing that before actually submitting the post. It doesn't change what it says though. And I'm not disagreeing with what you are currently saying. I just don't like when people seem like they are standing on some moral high-ground on this website. It's like, okay you don't like what's happening so you decided to do something to solve the problem for yourself, now either get over it or do more, maybe become better at creating models yourself and sell your own.
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@Sythra All I did really was shorten my statement to be more concise, I'm terrible at doing that before actually submitting the post. It doesn't change what it says though. And I'm not disagreeing with what you are currently saying. I just don't like when people seem like they are standing on some moral high-ground on this website. It's like, okay you don't like what's happening so you decided to do something to solve the problem for yourself, now either get over it or do more, maybe become better at creating models yourself and sell your own.
... Be so for real right now. Do you really think anyone that uses this website or similar places is making their own avatars? I know how to do basic editing in Unity and a little bit of Blender work but that doesn't mean everyone else on this website has the time or effort to want to do so. Many people just want to have access to avatar files to add to their collections and move on with their lives.
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... Be so for real right now. Do you really think anyone that uses this website or similar places is making their own avatars? I know how to do basic editing in Unity and a little bit of Blender work but that doesn't mean everyone else on this website has the time or effort to want to do so. Many people just want to have access to avatar files to add to their collections and move on with their lives.
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im so glad this was brought up. i love talking about piracy. this was awesome!! i see everyone's points and i understand the perspectives
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@lovelyctuei474 @rea007 I'm not disagreeing with either of you, the provider of a good or service have the responsibility to provide quality that match the prices being charged, but the point being raised by rea specifically is flawed. These are not goods or services you are requiring to live, they can literally charge whatever the market will bear and it won't affect you since you are not their customer until you have actually purchased anything from them and as such bear you not such responsibility. As things being overpriced; if the market won't bear it, they either don't purchase it or they get it through alternative means.
They could change the price down to $20 and it wouldn't affect me I would still have to use alternative means, but your argument is worthless the way you are saying it, like comparing big publishers so self-published indie devs? The required profits for indie devs tends to be signicantly lower because they have fewer people to pay and aren't typically beholden to stock owners. The type of site we are on really shatters any of our arguments on this if you look into it.
@kitties9999 You're points I actually agree with for the most point, the price point of a lot of old outdated models and their bases shouldn't be so high, especially when it would have increased their sales after so long. It's just poor marketing on their part honestly. As for the way they misrepresent their product in pictures and previews, hiding the poor quality, is incredibly infuriating. But yet again what can I say? I'm not often a paying customer, but I feel horrible for those that are. I put more work in my models than most of the model creators I see do when it comes to the unity side but am unable use Blender.
@zeikrius I am basically giving a different (mine) POV, if you disagree thats fine (although giving me negative reputation on my comment cuz of that is really shitty move, ngl)
Yes, avatars are not not needed for your live, true .. but that doesnt protect if from being percevied as overpriced / expensive - and like Ive said, you can state the price for your product / time as high as you want, but then dont be surpriced, if people would give you shit for it
You also stated I am not their customer, which depends on how you look at it .. if the price wouldnt be so high, I would buy something .. so you say Im not their customer until I buy somethin, I say a potential customer that would be willing to, if the price was right - its a matter of perception
Whats wrong with my comparison tho? Okay, I might aggree, that with big AAA games I may have made a misstep, but indie games? The people making them wanna have that much time put into developement paid too, just like VRC creators - but you probably missed my point, as I am comparing the revenew from all 3(2) activities - creating avatars takes time, sure .. making a game too, but much much more than making some avi (in most cases - if you dont count some slop games ofc), to which my another point is linked, how come the indie developers can allow their producs that they put hundreds of hours of work to price lets say 20 bucks, but VRC creators, that made their avi in (mostly) less than 100 price their product at the double or triple the price. (My bad if my previous comment wasnt understandable, I sometimes have hard time on explaining my thoughts correctly, without making huge ass paragraph)
If there is something I like, I am willing to price split.
Interested in edgy / goth avatars and assets and avatar props, mainly guns. -
@zeikrius I am basically giving a different (mine) POV, if you disagree thats fine (although giving me negative reputation on my comment cuz of that is really shitty move, ngl)
Yes, avatars are not not needed for your live, true .. but that doesnt protect if from being percevied as overpriced / expensive - and like Ive said, you can state the price for your product / time as high as you want, but then dont be surpriced, if people would give you shit for it
You also stated I am not their customer, which depends on how you look at it .. if the price wouldnt be so high, I would buy something .. so you say Im not their customer until I buy somethin, I say a potential customer that would be willing to, if the price was right - its a matter of perception
Whats wrong with my comparison tho? Okay, I might aggree, that with big AAA games I may have made a misstep, but indie games? The people making them wanna have that much time put into developement paid too, just like VRC creators - but you probably missed my point, as I am comparing the revenew from all 3(2) activities - creating avatars takes time, sure .. making a game too, but much much more than making some avi (in most cases - if you dont count some slop games ofc), to which my another point is linked, how come the indie developers can allow their producs that they put hundreds of hours of work to price lets say 20 bucks, but VRC creators, that made their avi in (mostly) less than 100 price their product at the double or triple the price. (My bad if my previous comment wasnt understandable, I sometimes have hard time on explaining my thoughts correctly, without making huge ass paragraph)
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woaaa.. i totally thought that leaking your own shit was like, illegal. but i cant actually think of why it would be illegal? thats crazy that, that happened..
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i've been keeping track of updates and will update link soon- i just can't find the page where i can access downloads -_- can't find it in my emails or anything
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remember to still support your creators and give back just as much as you take
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this me fr. makes me scared of using payhip to buy a little bit (i know that its better for creators)
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bump for update
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Bump think she's finally done updating it lol
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hello everyoneeee :3 im back!
update is getting uploaded and i'll be using pixeldrain this time!! update should be up in abt 5 minutes
remember to show your fav creators some love!! ♡
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